19 Nov A CONVERSATION WITH THE LORD INTERVIEW WITH RABBI LORD JONATHAN SACKS Z”L

Several years ago, our

community was privi-
leged to host Rabbi Lord

Jonathan Sacks, zt”l.
Before he addressed the

over 1,000 people in at-
tendance at BRS, I spon-
taneously asked him if I

could record a short interview. He gracious-
ly agreed, despite the last-minute request

and the fact that he was about to give a ma-
jor public talk. That recording sat dormant

in my phone until I was moved to share it
after we tragically lost Rabbi Sacks four

years ago. This week, to commemorate Rab-
bi Lord Sacks’s fourth yahrtzeit, here is a

condensed and edited transcript of that con-
versation.

You are a beacon of faith – you promote
faith, you teach faith, and you inspire

faith, not only among the Jewish commu-
nity and Jewish people but around the

world. Do you ever struggle with faith?
Do you ever feel that you confront doubt?
And in those moments of uncertainty,
what do you do to overcome it?
Let me be very blunt with you. I have had
many crises of faith. But I have never had a
crisis of faith in Hakadosh Baruch Hu. I
have had many crises of faith in man. One
crisis began as soon as I began to understand
the Holocaust and to understand that this
took place in the heart of civilized Europe,

not some third world country in some medi-
eval century.

The biggest question of faith I had was:
knowing all this was going to happen, how
come Hakadosh Baruch Hu had faith in us?
But I never lacked faith in G-d because I
never expected the impossible from Him. I
know perfectly well that He placed each of
us here for a purpose and we are supposed to
discern that and to walk ahead.
For me, the critical moment that defined my
faith was achieved when I learned Parshas
Chayei Sarah. It begins with the death of
Sarah. There is Avraham, having lost his life
companion at the age of 137. At that point,

he has received from Hashem three promis-
es: Number one – I will give you the land.

He promised that to him seven times. Num-
ber two – I will give you children – He

promised that to Avraham four times. I will
make you a great nation, they will be as
many as the stars in the sky, as the sand on
the seashore. And finally, I will make you
not one nation but many nations.
But he has only one son.
Where was the father of many nations?

Where was the infinite number of descen-
dants? What did Avraham do at that mo-
ment when he should have had a crisis of

faith?

He understood that G-d said “Walk on ahead
he ,So .התהלך לפני- והיה תמים – “me of
bought the first plot of land. He then made
sure his son got married so he would have
Jewish grandchildren. Later, in a strange
episode, he takes an additional wife named

Keturah and has six more children, who be-
come the fathers of many nations.

In other words, instead of expecting G-d to
do it for him, Avrohom realized that G-d
was expecting him to do the hard work for
Him. Once I understood that I never ever
had a crisis of faith.
What do you do when you run into a
rough patch when you’re having trouble
connecting with davening, when you feel
distant, when it’s not flowing, and you

don’t feel as much the presence of the Al-
mighty?

There are several things one can do: Number
one I try to listen as I’m davening and be
surprised by one phrase or one sentence, and
that will be my meditation for the day. I’ll
daven on that. It may stay with me for a
week.
For example, we say every day in Pesukei
מונה מספר- לכוכבים לכולם שמות :zimrah’D
יקרא, G-d creates the cosmos and knows the
name of every star. That’s G-d the Creator.
בונה ירושלים ה׳- נדחי ישראל יכנס says it Then

– G-d builds Jerusalem and ingathers the ex-
iles. That’s G-d as the shaper of history. But

in between those two verses is a middle
– הרופא לשבורי לב- ומחבש לעצבותם :verse
Who heals the broken heart, administers to

their wounds. There is Dovid Hamelech tell-
ing us that sometimes healing one person’s

broken heart is as important as creating a
universe or shaping history. You can live off
that one sentence for a year.
Never try to find kavana for the whole of
prayer. It doesn’t work, for heaven’s sake.
One little thing at a time. The second point is
that prayer has to be sung. I’ve said many
times that when language seeks to break free

of the gravitational pull of earth, it modu-
lates from speech to song. I’ve spent a lot of

time in my chief rabbinate encouraging
chazzanim to write new liturgical music, to

use songs to make the service more partici-
pative, and to encourage shul choirs. I’m not

an expert in music but I made that a key ele-
ment. We used a lot of musical creativity I

think that music frees the spirit and if you
are ever short of kavanah, you need to have
the nigun, the song, to daven with.
Thirdly, something might just catch you if
you create the silence in your soul to listen.
When I’m at a critical point in my life, which

is pretty much every day, I just listen: Hash-
em, what are You telling me? Somehow

prayer orients you. I call prayer “Jewish cog-
nitive behavioral therapy.” It changes the

way you look at the world; it changes the

way you feel about the
world.

We are always pro-
moting more Talmud

Torah and chessed
opportunities. We are
involved in activism
on behalf of Israel

and Israel relation-
ships. Some are in-
volved in social action

and social justice.
What do you think
that the Orthodox
community can be

spending more pro-
ductive time promot-
ing that is being over-
looked? Are there

initiatives and em-
phases that the Orthodox community

should be focusing on that we are neglect-
ing?

I think there are two that are being neglect-
ed. The first is, all that goes with the affec-
tive dimension of Judaism, the emotional

life. There’s some nice Jewish music here,

but some of the most popular music is actu-
ally non-Jewish pop music set to Jewish

words or acapella, which is great. I love it.
The Maccabeats – I’m their biggest fan. But
I like to see music coming from the Jewish
soul. I think we haven’t done enough with

the affective dimension, and music is prob-
ably the most important.

We write everyone else’s music. Irving Ber-
lin wrote “I’m Dreaming of a White Christ-
mas,”, Mahler’s eighth symphony, Catholic

mass. Where do we write our music? I think
we are missing the aesthetics of it and music
is the most obvious example. Cinema, too,
isn’t used enough in this regard. There’s just
been a film called Menashe, a very moving
film about Charedim in New York. I think
we haven’t done enough with that to tell
people what the life of faith does for you. I
have so many stories that I think ought to be
made into film. Stories of ordinary people I
know who have done extraordinary things.

Second, I absolutely think the Modern Or-
thodox community is missing out badly on

kiruv. The difference between material pos-
sessions and spiritual possessions is that the

more you share material possessions the less
you have. But when it comes to a spiritual
possession, the more you share the more you

have. That is why Chabad can send out peo-
ple all over the world where there is no Yid-
dishkeit whatsoever, and you or I would lose

our Yiddishkeit overnight because there’s
no support system. Yet, they are able to keep
it, because they share it.
The Modern Orthodox community should
be going out on campuses. Do you know

how many Jews

we lose on cam-
pus? 90% mini-
mum! Yet we’re

not going out
there. Every
campus should

host a nice mod-
ern Orthodox

minyan, daven-
ing three times a

day, Daf Yomi,
and everything
lemehadrin. But
they aren’t taking
it out to people
who don’t have
it. When you

don’t give, some-
thing in your

spirit dies.
A personal question: When we look at
your life and productivity, whether the

trajectory of ascending to the chief rab-
binate, publishing 30 books, 17 honorary

degrees, being named a Lord, etc., it just

seems that you have had success after suc-
cess, triumph after triumph. Have you

ever experienced failure? Have you ever
had any challenges that you couldn’t
overcome and what gave you the tenacity
to persevere?
Ha! Have I ever experienced failure?! My
goodness me! Oooh! [Laughter.]
I nearly failed my first year in university. I
nearly failed my second year in university. I
was turned down for virtually every job that
I applied for. Since I was a kid, I wanted to
write a book. I started when I was 20 and I
gave it every minute of spare time that I had.
Even when Elaine and I went to a concert I
would be writing notes during intervals or
between movements during a symphony.
Yet, I failed for 20 years! From 20 to 40 I
had a whole huge file cabinet of books I
started and never finished.
What changed is I happened to be reading
the preface to “Plays Unpleasant” by George
Bernard Shaw. It opens by saying that if
you’re going to write a book, write it by the
time you’re 40 or forget it. I thought it was
Min Hashamayim. Someone is telling me

something because I had no idea why I hap-
pened to read that passage by that writer at

that time. I thought to myself that it was my
last chance. So, I wrote my first book at 40
and then I wrote a book a year ever since.

Winston Churchill put it beautifully – suc-
cess is going from failure to failure without

loss of enthusiasm. The secret was marrying
someone who believes in you and then to
just keep going. Never stop! All of the things

that came much later, most of them unex-
pected – very moving but not the עיקר – it’s

just “keeping on go-
ing” day after day.

That wonderful Me-
drash in hakdamah

of Ein Yaakov asks

what is the main pa-
suk in the Torah?

One [Tanna] said that
it’s loving your fellow man, לרעך ואהבת
כמוך. A second said ישראל שמע, it’s about
accepting the yoke of Heaven. Then, Ben
…את- הכבש אחד תעשה בבקר says Pazzi
bringing the daily sacrifice in the morning

and in the evening. It’s about Shacharis, Min-
cha, Ma’ariv. That’s life! You keep hammer-
ing away and eventually you’ll get there.

The only thing that is absolutely necessary is
that you have to key into your mental satellite
navigation system, your destination. Because
if you don’t know where you’re trying to get
to, you’ll never get there. I knew I wanted to
write a book. It took 20 years of failure until
I finally succeeded in the twenty-first year.
Are there specific moments that you felt
Hashem’s guiding Hand in your life, that

things could have gone in different direc-
tions, and those moments specifically stand

out that it guided you to where you are
now?
I feel that way most of the time! I nearly
drowned on my honeymoon. I couldn’t swim
and I had just gone under for the fifth time.
We were in Italy and there was no one near
me. I remember thinking just before I was

about to die – what a way to begin a honey-
moon. And, what’s the Italian word for help?

ve’I .מודה אני – שהחזרת בי נשמתי day Every

twice suffered life threatening medical condi-
tions, two forms of cancer. Both times I met

the people that I needed to meet at the right

time. My father a”h, who never had an educa-
tion, left school when he was 15. But he had

an emunah peshutah – a simple faith. He just
believed that Hashem would take him where
he needed to be. I think I learned that from
him. You put your trust in Hakadosh Baruch

Hu; He knows better than you. I feel that ev-
ery single day – without exaggeration. It’s a

mental exercise. I will constantly say to my-
self or to Elaine – why did that happen??

I’ll give you the weirdest example: In 2010
I received from Princeton Theological
Seminary an award called the Abraham

Kuyper Prize,

awarded to some-
body who has made

a significant contri-
bution to Dutch

Neo-Calvinist theol-
ogy. I don’t know

how many Rabbeim
have such aa thing. I
was thinking then –
what does Hashem
want me to have this
for? Two years later the Dutch parliament
banned shechita. The Dutch community is
quite small, and they asked me to address
the Twin Houses of Dutch Parliament.
Abraham Kuyper, whose award I won, was
Prime Minister of Holland a century ago.

He was also Minister of Religion. So, I be-
gan my speech by saying that you might be

asking what a member of the British Parlia-
ment is doing addressing the Dutch Parlia-
ment? But I may be the only rabbi that has

the prize for his contribution to Dutch Neo-
Calvinist theology. It gave me a kind of

visiting card and I said, ‘Thank you, Hash-
em – now I understand why that hap-
pened’.

But it’s a constant discipline.
It takes the simple question –
what can I do, or what am I being
called on to do, given that this
has happened? We are sitting
here now in your wonderful
community of Boca Raton. And
I’m asking myself – why did I

davka have to come to Boca Ra-
ton?

I found out the answer only
about twenty minutes ago, shortly before
we began this conversation when I was
given a lift in a car by someone who was
telling me all the wonderful ways in which
you’re bringing the community together. I
suddenly realized that I had to be in Boca
Raton because Boca Raton is showing the
rest of the Jewish world how it’s done. This
is not mindfulness. This is l’havdil Yosef
Hatzaddik saying – why have I been sold

as a slave? Why am I here in prison? Even-
tually he is able to say to his brothers לא

worked I – אתם שלחתם- אותי כי אם אלקים
it out. It wasn’t you who was doing this to
me. It was part of Hashem’s plan. That’s a
mental discipline.