26 May Shavuous Kashruth Questions

Is one allowed to partake in mezonos food after kiddush? 

There is a fundamental principle of ain Kiddush ‘ela bim’kom seudah – Kiddush may only be made at the site of the meal [1] . Regardless of the rationale for the axiom of ain Kiddush ‘ela bim’kom seudah, one who makes Kiddush without a meal (i.e. he does not eat a seudah after Kiddush, or he recites Kiddush in a location other than where he eats the meal) does not fulfill the mitzvah of Kiddush and must make Kiddush again when and where he eats. The Tur and Shulchan Aruch (ibid. s. 5) quote the Geonim that one can fulfill the mitzvah of Kiddush without actually eating a full meal at the time and place that he makes Kiddush. Rather, posit the Geonim, a person can consume a mere kezayis of bread or even drink an additional revi’is of wine as his Kiddush-time “meal”, so that he fulfills the requirement of Kiddush bim’kom seudah. The Magen Avraham (ibid. s.k. 11) and Aruch HaShulchan (ibid. s. 8) explain that, according to the Geonim, one can eat what we refer to as Mezonos foods after Kiddush and satisfy the rule of ain Kiddush ‘ela bim’kom seudah. This interpretation of the Geonim’s opinion has become widely accepted, and many poskim permit partaking of Mezonos foods after Kiddush but advise against satisfying the mitzvah by merely drinking an additional revi’is of wine. (See MB ibid. s.k. 25.) The overall position of the Geonim is one of dispute, as the simple interpretation of ain Kiddush’ela bim’kom seudah is that one must actually have his seudah – a full meal with bread – upon making Kiddush, and some therefore advise that one is best not relying on the Geonim’s approach [2] . However, the more prevalent practice is to rely on the Geonim’s view and make Kiddush followed by cake or other Mezonos foods. [3] If one follows common custom (the opinion of the Geonim), it would seem that he can satisfy the minhag of consuming dairy food on Shavuos by eating cheesecake after Kiddush on Shavuos morning. However, it is not so simple. The approach of the Geonim only postulates that Mezonos food eaten after Kiddush satisfies the requirement of Kiddush bim’kom seudah when the amount of Mezonos food is at least a kezayis. (See MB 273: 21) The problem is that many types of cheesecake have very little flour, and one does not typically consume a kezayis of the dough or flour part of a slice of such cheesecake in the requisite period of k’dei achilas p’ras, “the time it takes to eat a piece of bread” (which, according to Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l, would be under 3 minutes – Igros Moshe 4:41). Thus, cheesecake with minimal dough/flour content would not seem to qualify as the Mezonos food to eat after Kiddush. Additionally, even though the b’racha rishona for cake and pie is Mezonos, even when the majority of the cake or pie consists of filling or fruit rather than flour, there is an exception when the flour or dough part of these desserts serves merely to hold the filling or fruit in place and is not intended to provide flavor (OC 208:2). Some cheesecakes are virtually all cheese, and they have a paper-thin layer of tasteless dough which merely keeps the cheese in place. This situation would warrant reciting a Shehakol and would likely not enable one to consume the cheesecake directly after Kiddush. (See OC 208:9 and MB ibid. s.k.45.) Should one wish to have cheesecake after morning Kiddush,the solution would be to either purchase a cheesecake that has sufficient dough/flour (a kezayis worth that will be consumed within the shiur of k’dei achilas p’ras), or to also eat a kezayis of another type of Mezonos food (e.g. cookies, pastry or cake), making sure to have a kezayis of the Mezonos food in a period of k’dei achilas p’ras, as above. In case one wishes to consume a Shehakol cheesecake, he should first eat a kezayis of Mezonos item right after Kiddush prior to eating the Shehakol cheesecake. 

Is one allowed to eat meat after milk? 

What is the halacha if one makes Kiddush and eats dairy foods, planning to later eat a meat Seudas Yom Tov? What if one partakes of a dairy Yom Tov seudah at midday and plans to eat a meat seudah shlishis later? How does one transition from milk to meat? The Gemara in Chullin (105a) quotes Rav Chisda, who states that one need not wait at all after eating cheese before consuming meat. However, if one consumes cheese and then plans to eat meat (as opposed to poultry), one must ascertain that his hands are clean, and he must cleanse and rinse his mouth. The Gemara’s discussion there elaborates on what constitutes proper kinuach (cleaning of the mouth) and hadachah (rinsing of the mouth). The Shulchan Aruch (Yoreh Deah 89:2) invokes the Gemara’s discourse on this topic. One must cleanse his mouth (kinuach) and rinse it (hadachah); kinuach [4] involves chewing bread, thereby cleansing the mouth very well. One may perform kinuach with anything that he desires, except for flour, dates and vegetables, since they adhere to the gums and do not cleanse well. And then one must rinse his mouth with water or wine. This is only for basar behemah or chayah, but for poultry, there is no need for any cleaning or washing of hands. The above procedures appear pretty simple. However, the commentaries of the Shulchan Aruch add a few noteworthy caveats. The Shach (s.k.9) quotes the Rif’s position that one should always wash his hands after eating cheese before partaking of meat and not rely on visual inspection of the hands, as one cannot really tell if his hands are truly free of residue by merely looking at them; the Shach further quotes the Iturei Zahav, who states that this is the common custom. In practice, one should conduct himself according to this position and always be sure to wash his hands after eating dairy foods before consuming meat. The Be’er Hetev (s.k.5) notes that the Pri Chodosh maintains that one need not wash his hands before meat if he ate cheese with a fork; it appears that the Be’er Hetev rules this way as a matter of practical halachah. The Aruch HaShulchan (89:8) concurs with the Pri Chodosh in this matter, and this is the accepted halachah.[5] Although the Shulchan Aruch rules that one must first perform kinuach and then do hadachah, the Shach (s.k.13) and Be’er Hetev (s.k.7) contend that the order does not matter. The Shach invokes the position of the Beis Yosef (Tur 89:11) that one may perform kinuach and hadachah in whichever order he prefers. The halachah is according to the Shach on this point, and one may perform kinuach and hadachah in the order of preference or convenience. Once one has finished eating dairy food and has performed kinuach and hadachah and has cleansed his hands, may he eat meat right away? The Gemara does not stipulate any waiting period. In fact, the Shulchan Aruch (YD 89:2) notes that one may eat meat miyad – immediately – and the Rif, Rambam and Tur also do not record any requirement for a waiting period. However, the Zohar in Parshas Mishpatim (155a) indicates that one must recite the bracha acharonah after a dairy meal and then wait before being permitted to consume meat. Many conduct themselves as such and wait half an hour or an hour in light of the Zohar’s position, although the bottom-line halachah is not to require any such waiting period. The above pertains only to one who ate a dairy meal and then wishes to eat ”meat” in the true sense of the word, such as beef, veal or venison. Poultry requires no washing of hands nor cleansing and rinsing of the mouth when eaten after dairy foods.Seudas Yom Tov, irrespective of the choice of foods he decides to serve.)